My quote from the NKJV Preface is from an edition of the NKJV copyright 1988 and one copyright 1997, but an edition of the NKJV copyright 1983 doesn't have that unfavorable wording about the Textus Receptus.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Which English Translations of the Bible are you Favorites, and Why?
by Disillusioned JW inwhich english translations of the bible are you favorites, and why?
my favorites include the (english) revised version bible (of 1881-1885) and its apocrypha (of 1898), the american revised version bible (of 1898, it close to the american standard version), the american standard version bible (of 1901), the new american standard bible - updated edition, the new revised standard version bible with the apocrypha, the complete bible: an american translation (it includes the apocrypha), and the twentieth century new testament.
i also use others beside those.. they are my favorites because i consider them to be highly accurate, and also they are either very literal (but not so literal as to be hard to understand) or they use functional equivalence.
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Disillusioned JW
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, the articles I posted links to mention the human-like features of "Little Foot". One thing which to me is more human-like about it than the Lucy fossil is that the "Little Foot" cranium has a considerably higher vault (above the eye brow ridge) than does the Lucy fossil. Also while it and Lucy both have a human-like pelvis (unlike nonhuman apes), the "Little Foot" fossil has a somewhat divergent toe, than does Lucy's species and modern humans. As a result, the foot of the "Little Foot" fossil is more intermediate (in regards to transitional features) between non-human apes and modern humans, than are the fossils of Lucy's species.
In mentioning the Lucy fossil you mention ape-like features (except that regarding the first three, I don't recall ever reading about such features of Lucy from a scientific book or scientific article about evolution) while avoiding the mention of human-like features. For examples, you did not mention the following: the human-like proportions of the teeth (including the canines); an aspect about the skull Lucy's species which shows it was mounted much more vertically on the spinal column than in apes [namely, the foramen magnum and occipital condyles were anteriorly sited, as in humans, though perhaps at an angle intermediate to that of apes and of humans]; the human-like shape of the pelvis (well you mentioned the pelvis, but in an incorrect way); the human-like relative length of the toes of the feet, the human-like alignment of the big toe relative to the other toes, and the human-like shape of the ends of the leg bones.
It is largely the mosaic of ape and human features which provide both the "Little Foot" fossil and the Lucy fossil (along with fossils of other members of Lucy's species) with part of the evidence of evolution of humans from nonhuman apes.
Furthermore, the skull you show displayed to the right of a reconstruction of Lucy is not the fossil (nor a cast) of Lucy's skull (though perhaps it is a fossil of some member of Lucy's species, or perhaps a different reconstruction than I am familiar with). The fossil remains of Lucy's skull were not anywhere near that complete as that of the skull image you provided. Furthermore, a composite skull made of multiple members of her species, which I saw in books, looks more human in shape than the skull you show.
Regarding the foramen magnum and occipital condyles being anteriorly sited in Lucy's species and in other Australopithecus species, like in humans (though I think I read it is to a degree which is intermediate between apes and humans), see https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130926111903.htm and https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/fossil-hominid . The latter says "In all fossil hominids the foramen magnum and occipital condyles are positioned further anteriorly than in great apes."
It appears you obtained your list of Lucy's features from one or more young earth creationist sources, perhaps from https://kgov.com/list-of-problems-with-lucy-as-an-upright-walker . That source has both the images you attribute to Lucy and the source says it obtained its information from "the president of Genesis Apologetics". That web page also lists the exact same list of 6 features, in the same order, which you listed in your post.
Your reference of "they just fix it with a power saw until it does" is probably referring to some creationists' claim of what was done to the fossil pelvis of Lucy and a creationist's misrepresented video segment of a NOVA TV show. But their claim is false. Instead it was done to a plaster cast of the fossil pelvis of Lucy. The proof of that is in the full first episode of the NOVA TV show called "In Search of Human Origins". The transcript of it is at https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2106hum1.html . There the transcript says the following.
"DON JOHANSON: ... Superficially, her hip resembled a chimpanzee's, which meant that Lucy couldn't possibly have walked like a modern human. But Lovejoy noticed something odd about the way the bones had been fossilized.
OWEN LOVEJOY: When I put the two parts of the pelvis together that we had, this part of the pelvis has pressed so hard and so completely into this one, that it caused it to be broken into a series of individual pieces, which were then fused together in later fossilization.
DON JOHANSON: After Lucy died, some of her bones lying in the mud must have been crushed or broken, perhaps by animals browsing at the lake shore.
OWEN LOVEJOY: This has caused the two bones in fact to fit together so well that they're in an anatomically impossible position.
DON JOHANSON: The perfect fit was an allusion that made Lucy's hip bones seems to flair out like a chimps. But all was not lost. Lovejoy decided he could restore the pelvis to its natural shape. He didn't want to tamper with the original, so he made a copy in plaster. He cut the damaged pieces out and put them back together the way they were before Lucy died. It was a tricky job, but after taking the kink out of the pelvis, it all fit together perfectly, like a three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle. As a result, the angle of the hip looks nothing like a chimps, but a lot like ours. Anatomically at least, Lucy could stand like a human."Many of the claims of young earth creationist apologists about the evidence pertaining to evolution are lies and/or misrepresentations - and the WT uses the same tactics as them and has even quoted from their publications. Some creations don't know that a number of claims made by other creationists are lies and/or misrepresentations, but they unfortunately spread them. I discovered so many of the creationists claims are lies and/or misrepresentations, as a result of my research pertaining to evolution versus creationism.
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
The more hominid fossils are found the more various transitional features of human evolution are found. We see more steps in the transition when we see fossils of more hominid species. That is what I meant by "... the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger." It is not about one hominid fossil being by itself being better evidence than prior discovered fossils (though some fossils are better than others in showing the evolution), but rather it is the increasing variety of hominid fossils which amounts to the fossil evidence of human evolution getting stronger and stronger. It is like the assembling of more pieces of a jigsaw puzzle results in a better and better picture of the puzzle. It is also like getting higher and higher resolution photographic images results in a picture that is better and better.
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
I already provided one specific fossil example in my first post in this topic thread, namely the example of the fossil skeleton named "Little Foot". I consider it an excellent case - even better than the fossil named Lucy. The "Little Foot" skeleton has a mixture of human non-ape features and of ape nonhuman features, and is thus representative of part of the evolution of modern humans from non-human apes. But it is the collective evidence which strongly and conclusively demonstrates evolution, not merely one single example.
You are trying to trap me by your unreasonable insistence that if if evolution is true then one specific example, all by itself, should be able to conclusively demonstrate its entire truth. That is a major fault of young earth creationists and of their literature.
It is really tiresome communicating with people who are so faulty in their reasoning against biological evolution and in other matters.
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
In order for the doctor to know how to do the medical procedure the person who became the doctor had to spend numerous years studying numerous medical facts in order to later become a doctor, in order to later diagnose the medical problem, in order to later determine the solution to the medical problem, and in order to later propose a particular medical procedure and to perform the medical procedure. Figuratively speaking, the person who became the doctor had to collect and study multiple puzzle pieces and to piece them together. My analogy of jigsaw puzzles is thus valid.
For example, in order to show the fossil evidence for evolutionary transition of humans from non-human animals, one needs more than one fossil. One needs multiple fossils representing multiple stages of the transition (multiple transitional features). Likewise to show the evidence of evolution from comparative anatomy a person needs to compare more than one common feature between two different species. One needs to compare many common features (as well as different features and somewhat different features) between numerous species, to show that various current species have a common ancestor and to show evidence for biological evolution.
There is also the evidence from genetics of existing species, the evidence from biogeography, the evidence from experiments in mutations of genes, the evidence of atavisms, the evidence of radiometric dating of fossils, and more. There is also the principle of consilience. When these lines of evidence are all considered together, while using the principle of consilience, biological evolution is shown to be true well beyond a reasonable doubt (much like jurors considering multiple pieces of evidence before making a final decision and casting a verdict) - and non-evolutionary special creationism is shown to be extremely unlikely to be true.
Regarding atavisms see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atavism .
Sea Breeze, it sounds like you are the one who needs to do some more research and/or to do much more critical thinking (from a scientific perspective) on the topic.
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The bus stop analogy
by slimboyfat insuppose we were naïve observers, given the following data, and asked to draw a conclusion.
we see people gather at a busy bus stop several times a day.
at first one person, then another, and another, until they form a group.
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Disillusioned JW
It is true that the arrivals of the buses are based upon bus schedules, but the but schedules are in turn based upon ridership patterns. When ridership levels drop considerably in certain routes, then the bus schedules for those routes change to lower frequency of stops and sometimes the routes are even discontinued. Likewise if some areas start having much higher ridership (or are even anticipated to soon have higher ridership or even to need ridership, such as due to newly created buildings on the route), the bus schedules for those routes change to higher frequency of stops and sometimes even a new route is created.
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The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger
by Disillusioned JW indespite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".
below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, for me it more of a comprehensive collection of numerous scientific findings that together prove well beyond a reasonable doubt that neo-Darwinian evolution (incorporating the idea of punctuated equilibrium) is a fact. It like viewing a large jigsaw puzzle. If a person only looks at a few pieces of a 650 piece jigsaw puzzle (without looking at the picture on the cover of the puzzle's box) then the person has virtually no idea of the what the whole puzzle is a picture of. Even if the person looks at all 650 pieces without the pieces connected together, then the person would still have no more than very little of an idea of what the whole puzzle is a picture of. But, after much of the puzzle has been assembled then the person has a good idea.
By the way, as a youngster I loved putting together jigsaw puzzles, including a 650 piece jigsaw puzzle and I still have most of the puzzles I had as a youngster.
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The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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Disillusioned JW
waton, I appreciate the insight of your words of "DJW; even when wrongly assigning the details of a so-called "second fulfillment" of a bible prophecy, wt sets itself up to be a false prophet, before the date even arrives."
It is true that the WT is often incorrect in making a "second fulfillment" type of
interpretation of OT prophecies. Furthermore since the WT claims that it (and its governing body) is (are) Jehovah God's channel of providing scriptural insight, and that the WT is directed in some sense by Jehovah God's holy spirit, and since they also claim that all of the literature of the WT are part of Jehovah God's provisions, then when the WT teaches such false interpretations they are indeed acting as a false prophet. Likewise such can be recognized even before the dates assigned (and even if no date is assigned) by the WT for fulfillment to such prophetic interpretations, since the WT is on record as naming specific former prophetic interpretations of theirs as false (in some regard).waton, you are correct about the WT being in error regarding their teachings of the generation (including the overlapping feature), heavenly resurrections since 1918, and that 'the "anointed" will all have passed away to heaven by the beginning of the "great distress"'. They are also very much in error in saying that Jesus Christ became king in heaven in the year 1914.
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Which English Translations of the Bible are you Favorites, and Why?
by Disillusioned JW inwhich english translations of the bible are you favorites, and why?
my favorites include the (english) revised version bible (of 1881-1885) and its apocrypha (of 1898), the american revised version bible (of 1898, it close to the american standard version), the american standard version bible (of 1901), the new american standard bible - updated edition, the new revised standard version bible with the apocrypha, the complete bible: an american translation (it includes the apocrypha), and the twentieth century new testament.
i also use others beside those.. they are my favorites because i consider them to be highly accurate, and also they are either very literal (but not so literal as to be hard to understand) or they use functional equivalence.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding John 7:53 - 8:11 the translators' textual footnote in the NKJV says the following. "NU brackets 7:53 through 8:11 as not in the original text. They are present in over 900 mss. of John." This shows one example of the Greek NT becoming corrupted long before the year 1000 C.E., by the addition of so many extra words. As a result, the 2013 revision of the NWT is justified in entirely excluding John 7:53 - 8:11 from its text, especially considering that now almost only JWs (and ex-JWs) use the NWT anyway.
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Which English Translations of the Bible are you Favorites, and Why?
by Disillusioned JW inwhich english translations of the bible are you favorites, and why?
my favorites include the (english) revised version bible (of 1881-1885) and its apocrypha (of 1898), the american revised version bible (of 1898, it close to the american standard version), the american standard version bible (of 1901), the new american standard bible - updated edition, the new revised standard version bible with the apocrypha, the complete bible: an american translation (it includes the apocrypha), and the twentieth century new testament.
i also use others beside those.. they are my favorites because i consider them to be highly accurate, and also they are either very literal (but not so literal as to be hard to understand) or they use functional equivalence.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the Koine Greek see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek .
Though the main text of the NKJV's NT is translated from the Textus Receptus, I greatly appreciate that the translators' footnotes include alternate readings from two Critical Text types (the ones referred to as NU and M). "NU" means Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (referred to as "the most prominent modern Critical Text of the Greek New Testament") and "M" means Majority Text (see the "Preface" and the section called "Special Abbreviations" of the NKJV).
The Preface of the NKJV (under the heading of "The New Testament") says the following. "Today, scholars agree that the science of New Testament textual criticism is in a state of flux. Very few scholars still favor the Textus Receptus as such, and then often for its historical prestige as the text of Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, and the King James Version. ... the editors decided to retain the traditional text in the body of the New Testament and to indicate major Critical and Majority Text variant readings in the textual footnotes."